Arrival/Dance of the Dead: The only way to enter or leave the Village {Triumph for The Machine}
The Chimes of Big Ben/Checkmate: There is no escape
A B and C/The General: Manipulation of technology and science
Free For All/It's Your Funeral: Politics of The Village
The Schizoid Man/A Change of Mind: manipulation of medicine and psychology
Many Happy Returns/Hammer Into Anvil: Where No.2 comes from our society
Once Upon A Time/Fall Out: Who is No.1?
Here are the 'padding' episodes in this version of '7' films
Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling - Living In Harmony - The Girl Who Was Death
It was the above list which Mister Anonymous drew up so cleverly when you consider the brief notation which accompanies each pairing, which got me thinking. In 1982 ITC released eight episodes of the Prisoner on Precision Video, two episodes per tape, and each produced in a 90 minute film format.
Because although there are two episodes per video, both come under the one title, as in the following list:
The Arrival/The Schizoid Man
Many Happy Returns/A B and C
Checkmate/Free For All
The General/The Chimes of Big Ben
The way the films have been produced is such that the ending of the first episodsde runs into the following episode, there is no end credits for the first episode, and no opening sequence to the second. Nor is there the regular closing credits, but a blue background rolling credits for the two episodes. Those who have watched these videos will understand.
There is no apparent logic behind the pairing of these episodes, not as in the pairings by Mister Anonymous, but they do work together. I have wondered in the past why ITC would produce thee episodes in such a way, and it was through Mister Anonymous's comment which caused me to think about this. If McGoohan had in mind originally to produce Arrival as a 90 minute film, as well as The Girl Who Was Death as either a 90 minute film, or even a two part episode, then I can see the reasoning behind the way ITC released the above episodes. There is no doubt in my mind that had Precision Videos not gone bankrupt, that the remaining episodes would also have been presented as 90 minute films. The only question is, how the remaining episodes would they have been paired, which of course would have left a single episode to itself. It would have been interesting to see how ITC would have dealt with that. But of course I shall never know now, but that does not stop me being intrigued by the thought. Be seeing you.
Hello David
ReplyDeleteThe Precision Videos' list is interesting. It would seem logical that one unproduced 'film' would be 'Once Upon A Time'/Fall Out.
It would also make sense to perhaps place The Girl Who Was Death and Living in Harmony together as they are both tales happening in the mind of No.6... it would not be to far fetched to have Do Not Forsake Me in the same sequence to create a single 'feature length film'(GWWD/LIH/DNFM).
That would only leave two other 'films' to account for.
Any suggestions?
I will make mine later.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
Hello Mister Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYes, as a matter of fact I do have some suggestions. In fact I'm drawing up a list of my own at this present time, but it needs tweaking a little. But suffice to say that if 'Fall Out' had not come along, then 'Once Upon A Time' would have stood alone as originally intended, then 'The Chimes of Big Ben' could have been paired with 'Once Upon A Time' and the 'Conclusion'to the series would have stood as a film alone.
What think you?
I'll be seeing you again soon in this blog.
David
Hello David
ReplyDeleteI have mentioned before the Canadian broadcast order had the series concluded with The Chimes of Big Ben, it had been preceded by Once Upon A Time (OUAT then COBB)... this leaves me wondering if Mr. McGoohan had something like this in mind from the very inception of the series.
In a way not to different than with Fall Out with 'The Prisoner' finding out his 'freedom' is a myth and we already know from 'Checkmate' that it is his own 'ego' that makes him exactly like his jailers and by extension keeping himself prisoner, thus answering 'Who is No.1?.
I am certain that millions of Canadians would applaud that movie.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
Hello Mister Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYes I think he probably did. It seems reasonable to me that 'The Chimes of Big Ben' should be followed by 'Once Upon A Time,' and might have done had it not been for the conception of 'Fall Out.' Had Leo McKern held his ground when after his nervous breakdown during and after 'Once Upon A Time' in swearing he would not work with that man again, meaning McGoohan, then Leo McKern would not have appeared in 'Fall Out,' leaving 'Once Upon A Time' as an episode which would stand alone and not as the prequal to 'Fall Out.'
I also think it reasonable for 'A B and c' to be followed by 'The General' for the same reason as 'Cimes' and OUAT' that No.2 is played by the same actor.
Certainly freedom is a myth. No.6 first finds this out during 'the Chimes of Big Ben,' that it is his own people who have had him abducted and held captive in the Village. Yet it is more then this. Yet it is much deeper than this as there is another level, for it is not No.6's alter ego, No.1, who holds him in the Village. It is his alter ego that is putting him to the test, why the tissue must not be damaged, that No.2 doesn't want No.6 broken, doesn't want a man of fragments, because No.1 is looking after No.6. either way there is no escape, because there is no escaping onseself! That is why the Prisoner is still as much a prisoner at the end as he was at the beginning.
Now, regarding the 90 minute films of 'the Prisoner' and the 'Precision Videos.' I have come up with a possible list of my own, the only trouble is it mirrors the list which you yourself came up with.
Somehow I could not help it. I didn't look at your list, or compare it in any way. The episodes I chose seemed to choose themselves, making them a natural choice in many ways.
Arrival/Dance of the Dead {the same as yours}
The Chimes of Big Ben/ Checkmate {the same as yours}
A B & C {again the same as in your list, well I could not better them, they seem natural selection so far and seem to select themselves}
Free For All/The Schizoid Man
Many Happy Returns/Hammer Into Anvil {because of Thorpe}
A Change of Mind/Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling {a strange choice perhaps, but it's the subject of the mind and the title that does it for me. The title of the second episode in this pairing could have the title of the first if you see what I mean}
Living In Harmony/The Girl Who Was Death {simply on the grounds that much of the action which takes place in both episodes does so outside of the Village. Although 'Many Happy Returns' also fits into that catagory}
Once Upon A Time/Fall Out {has to be}
Which leaves 'It's Your Funeral' as a stand alone episode. But then again 'The Arrival' was originally to have been a 90 minute film, so that would have stood alone, also 'The Girl Who Was Death,' but we can only work with what we have, the series itself. Anything else would only cloud the issue. So in the end I had to put what 'might have been' out of my mind, to simply work with the series as it is, not as it might have been.
Best Wishes
David
BCNU
Hello David
ReplyDeleteI have returned to this post with an interesting thought. If Mr . McGoohan helped with the order of these 90 minute films and the job was left unfinished, what new insights about The Prisoner could be seen in this suggestive new ordering ?
Using only the first original 13 episodes produced (plus Fall Out) how would you order them and what would they say.
There is precedent for this as there is a news item that states Mr. McGoohan had wanted at one point to wrap the series up at only 14 episodes.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteGood to hear from you, I take it you are well.
This as they say, is a subject I shall have to give some thought to. And to help find Tony Sloman's production list of 'the Prisoner,' I have it somewhere.....Yes, I've just found it.
For the moment let me leave you with my initial thoughts. If we are to use the original 13 episodes, we cannot include 'Fall Out' because the script for that episode was not written at that time. And an early episode is 'Once Upon A Time' which was originally meant to be a stand alone epiosde, and not as a prequal to 'Fall Out.' If we are simply to use the original 13 episodes, I don't see how 'Fall Out' can be included.
This is a subject which I shall return to after giving it further thought.
Very kind regards
David
Be seeing you
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteI find it very difficult when trying to draw up a list of the original 13 episodes that has to include 'Fall out, because 'Fall Out' is not one of the original thirteen episodes. And 'Once Upon A Time' was originally intended as the last episode of the first 13 part series. But in the film library list of 'the Prisoner' 'Once Upon A Time' is followed by 'The Schizoid Man' {see my other comment reply}.
And this is the trouble you see, McGoohan stated that he only wanted 7 episodes, now you say that there was a news item saying he wanted to wrap the series up at 14 episodes!!!!! 7, 14, 26 episodes, I admit it, I'm lost, and am having difficulty getting my head round it all, I admit it!
I must come back to this when my head's more clear.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
Hello David
ReplyDeleteThe precedent was to conclude with 14 episodes, the 14 th would be Fall Out. Fairclough points out that the original script of OUAT conclude with the words 'the sound of Rocket is heard. Leading him to state that OUAT was always to be followed by Fall Out.
The other notions of OUAT in broadcast order is another of Mr. Markstein's fabrications.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteNow you have an advantage over me, as I am not privy to Fairclough's Prisoner script books, and my mind is getting in a right muddle with this.
Firstly 'Once Upon A Time' is an early episode in the production/library list, and was intended as a stand alone episode. During the prodcution of 'the Prisoner,' McGooahn went to Lew Grade and said that he had no idea how the series was going to end, that he didn't have an ending for the series! At the time of the production of 'Once Upon A Time' there was no conception of 'Fall Out,' and the final scene with the Supervisor was added at the time of shooting 'Fall Out,' which was written much later than 'Once Upon A Time.
I have a copy of the flim library order of 'the Prisoner.' it goes as follows
1, Arrival
2, Free For All
3, Dance of the Dead
4, The Chimes of Big Ben
5, Degree Absolute {Once Upon A Time}
6, The Schizoid Man
7, A Change of Mind
8, Play In Three Acts {A B and C}
9, Checkmate
10, It's Your Funeral
11, The General
12, Hammer Into Anvil
13, Many Happy Returns
14, Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling
15, Living In Harmony
16, The Girl Who Was Death
17, Fall Out
As you see, originally in the series 'Once Upon A Time' was supposed to be followed by 'The Schizoid Man' in the film library order. Now things did get changed during the production, that much is self evident. So these words about the sound of a rocket at the end of 'Once Upon A Time' written originally for the script, or is it a later amendment like the appearance of the Supervisor? Do not forget that there were 12 motns between the production of 'Once Upon A Time' and the conception of Fall Out.' I don't know what Fairclough has written in his script books, but it's not possible for 'Once Upon A Time to have always been intended as the penultimate episode of the series. Because originally 'Once Upon A time' was intended as the 13th story of the first series of 13 episodes, there to be followed by a second series of 13 episodes.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
Hello David
ReplyDeleteYou might say that Fall Out existed in the mind of Mr. McGoohan all along ( a conception if you will) as you will find it's parallel in the same source material as Once Upon A Time, the play known as 'The Prisoner' in which Mr. McGoohan played the Interrogator.
For your perusal here is Mr. Moor Larkin's look at the film version.
http://numbersixwasinnocent.blogspot.com/2011/05/mcgoohan-in-his-own-words-it-was-place.html
The words 'sound of a rocket' were part of Mr. McGoohan's original authorship of the first write of OUAT. Mr. McGoohan was fascinated by the very first linking of the globe by a speech President John F. Kennedy gave using the television satellite called Telestar, he was also aware of the spy satellites of the day called SAMOS.
Fall Out is the extension from the interrogation scenes in The Prisoner (play) climaxing in the trial sequence and the 'triumph' of the Interrogator over the Cardinal later both man have shared something of each others mindset and both have no freedom but know something more of being human.
Mr. McGoohan merely reversed the roles handing Leo McKern's No. 2 (Interrogator) a crushing defeat and No.6 (Cardinal) a bitter 'victory'.
In an American news item Mr. McGoohan openly talked of elements from OUAT and a number of the themes seen in Fall Out including the possible launch of a nuclear strike, all before the series conclusion.
All I am suggesting is that the first 13 episodes plus Fall Out might be interesting to arrange in the suggestive order of the Precision Video (VHS) and see what shakes out as a an interesting thought experiment.
I have read your recent Prismatic Reflexion post and find it very informative. It was not my intention to go one on one in the Embryo Room with my host ending up in a dark room. ;-)
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
PS Mr. McGoohan has said he needed some reflection at times as The Prisoner developed over time. It is very likely that the American Broadcast order for CBS was his finished idea of The Prisoner.
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteI've been doing a little research of my own this morning after reading your comments, and it appears to me, that what McGoohan said in a variety of interviews, after the event of 'the Prisoner,' can be taken with a pinch of salt! McGoohan may have claimed that he had 'Fall Out' in his mind all the time, indeed McGoohan told Anthony Davis of the 'TV Times' {February 15th 1968} "I envisaged it from the beginning. In a series like this you have to know from the outset what you're aiming at. You have to know the ending before you can begin. So I had the idea for the final episode first of all and took it from there." Yet it is also documented that McGoohan went to Grade saying "I just cannot find an ending. I've got too confused with the project. We have no ending."
I would be careful of what McGoohan is reported to have said 'after' the event, because he contradicts what actually happened at the time. I suspect McGoohan said a variety of things to members of the press and the like, because he thought they wouldn't know the difference between what he told them, and what actually took place at the time of 'the Prisoner's production.
Regards
David
BCNU
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteI have seen the film 'The Prisoner,' and can see how McGoohan might have used it for inspiration for 'Once Upon A Time,' in which the Prisoner and interrogator change places. In 'The Prisoner' it is the cardinal who is victorious but with a question mark against him. In 'Once Upon A Time' it is Number 6. Yet for Number 6 it is a bitter sweet victory, that much is self evident by the way he angrily smashes his glass upon the floor when the Supervisor tells him they'll need the body for evidence. Number 2 said that he was beginning to like Number 6, I think the same feeling was reciprocated by Number 6.
As for the sound of the rocket, don't understand that myself, it has nothing to do with the final scene for me, and I'm glad it was not used in the actual episode.
Regards
David
BCNU
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteThank you for your concern, but I've had the treatment and I'm in much better for today. Regarding the possible 'Precision Video' matching of episodes into 90 minute films. We know these;
1, The Arrival - The Schizoid Man {under the title of 'the Arrival}
2, Many Happy Returns - A B and C {under the title Many Happy returns}
3, Checkmate - Free For All {under the title Checkmate}
4, The General - The Chimes of Big Ben {under the title of The General
So initial thoughts on the reamining pairing of episodes is as follows;
5, Dance of the Dead - It's Your Funeral {the link being death}
6, A Change of Mind - Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling {the link being the changes of mind or minds}
7, Living In Harmony - The Girl Who Was Death {the link two episodes apparently taking place outside the Village}
8, Hammer Into Anvil - Once Upon A Time {the link being interrogation}
9 Fall Out {the conclsuion}
One natural pairing could be Once Upon A Time - Fall Out, but that would leave 'Hammer Into Anvil as the stand alone episode, which I think Fall Out would be better placed. What do you think?
Regards
David
BCNU
Hello David
ReplyDeleteConcerning the matter of the comment by Mr. Lew Grade that Mr. McGoohan had no ending was quite true but with the following rider. Mr. McGoohan had informed Mr. Grade he needed to see how other episodes might impact any climax to the series before being able to bring it to his pre-conceived conclusion.
Mr. McGoohan had decided to end the series at 17 episodes and had written one ending in about August 1967, there are American news items to this effect. He reviewed at least three writer's various endings and wrote Fall Out at a late date so as to take into account any possible influences on the series.
Mr. McGoohan wrote Fall Out in a period of time comparable to that of Once Upon A Time and Free For All.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteAs purely a person opinion, I feel that it was not McGoohan's decision to end the series at 17 episodes, I think it was the series that decided that! It was both ideas, money, and time had brought the series to a conclusion. It would have been impossible for the series to be continued, even in the form of a second series. Mcgoohan had driven himself into the ground, he was exhausted.
According to Frank Maher, the descision to make the final episode was a sudden one, with McGoohan announcing this to the production crew a few days before the principal shooting concluded on 'The Girl Who Was Death.' Following this McGoohan vanished into his dressing room for the weekend to start writing, Frank Maher suppliying McGoohan with sandwiches and drink! They all turned up on the Monday morning and the script wasn't finished. And it wasn't until the following Tuesday morning that six of the production crew got a copy of the script, and shooting began on the afternoon of that day. And I quote from Andrew Pixley's book 'The Prisoner - A complete guide.' And what Andrew Pixley doesn't know about the production of 'the Prisoner' isn't worth knowing!
As for "Mr. McGoohan wrote Fall Out in a period of time comparable to that of Once Upon A Time and Free For All."
This goes against what Frank Maher said, especially when you consider the fact that 'The Girl Who was Death' was one of the last episodes to be produced, 16th in the production order, whereas 'Free For All' and Once Upon A Time' were produced much earlier second and fifth in the production order.
Regards
David
BCNU
Hello David
ReplyDeleteThe Washington Post August 4, 1967
'Secret Agent' Star Quitting TV Cold
Mcgoohan has turned down CBS request that he film 36 segments of his new series "The Prisoner".
"I have completed 13 and will do four more- and then no
more." (Patrick McGoohan)
Time Magazine
The Private I
Friday, Jun. 21, 1968
Like many another television success, McGoohan believes that TV "can gobble you up and eventually destroy you." For that reason, he made only 17 episodes of The Prisoner, and now plans to quit TV except for some documentary productions.
Currently, he is with his wife and three daughters in Switzerland, writing. Where in Switzerland, nobody at the moment seems to know. Unlike the luckless prisoner, McGoohan has succeeded in preserving his privacy.
I think you will find the news items quoted from the American Press to be of interest.
There is a quote from July 1966 that Mr. McGoohan had planned to do The Prisoner as a limited series of "no less than 13 episodes and no more than 30".
Sir Lew grade is on record as saying McGoohan did not want produce more than 17 episodes at the time of his sale to CBS, the quote is from his biography, the sale date to CBS was in October 1966.
As to the matter of a 'similar period of time" I was referring to the fact that Mr. McGoohan wrote all his scripts at a furious pace of within 36 hours or over a week end... not as to the production time period. It is sometimes cited that because Fall Out was written at that "furious pace" this was a sign of panic at sudden cancellation of the series but that was just the pace that Mr. McGoohan wrote at. Mr. McGoohan had already decided by August 4, 1967 to not go beyond his original 17 episode agreement with Mr. Lew Grade.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
PS I will submit my suggested Precision Video program order and 'what it might mean" in my next post.
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteYes, very interesting from the American press. 7, 13, 17, 26, or 30 episodes, spread over two series. But I'm not so sure that McGoohan wrote the scripts he did over 36 hours, 'Fall Out' apart. A fast writer yes, well it was a question of time, and time was running out towards the end.
If McGoohan had been allowed to stop at 7 episodes, then he'd have left the viewer wanting more, and possibly the same could be said at 13 episodes. But 30, even 26 episodes, possibly over two series would have been too far and would have spoilt the whole enjoyment of 'the Prisoner.' Besides, I don't think McGoohan had anything left for further episodes, which is probbaly just as well.
As for the panic, of course there was panic, because the screening of 'the Prisoner,' which commenced here in Great Britain on September 29th, began to catch up on the production of the series. In fact the screening of the series actually caught up with the production, and for two weeks ATV had to screen the two colour episodes of 'Danger Man,' 'Koroshi' and 'Shinda Shima,' to allow the production of 'the Prisoner' to catch up!
Regards
David
BCNU
Hello David
ReplyDeleteApologies for not getting to this earlier. I have studied and enjoyed your list order of the episodes and at the moment see no means to improve upon it. I will try to put some interpretation to it in my next post.
I am glad you enjoyed the references from the American press.
Sincerely
Mr. Anonymous
Hello Mister Anonymous,
DeleteNo need to apologise. I'm happy you appreciate my pairing of the episodes. I'm quite satisfied with them, and will not be tweaking them. But when you have time for your own interpretations on the matter.
Kind regards
David
BCNU