I was trawling ebay the other day, and when I do that I always have a look at things 'Prisoner.' And I saw the above box set, and two people were bidding on it. I have no idea how much the box set sold for, but it was good to see that two people wanted it. I hope the buyer enjoys the series, and for the person who lost out, I hope he or she eventually finds one. It would seem that this is a wanted series after all!
BCNU
David, TWO people bidding for an item doesn't make it wanted, it simply shows that there are two people who don't recognise this new-fangled Prisoner for what it is, embarrassing rubbish. All the people NOT bidding for it know the truth.
ReplyDeleteHello Anonymous,
DeleteI have to say that I find it difficult to converse with someone I do not know, do not even to have a name, because you have the advantage. Oh well.
Can I ask, are you one of the many fans who dismissed the series without giving it a fair chance, before it went into production even? Or have you actually watched the entire series?
Very kind regards
David
BCNU
David, you've sidestepped the issue. Only two people wanted it. The rest of the world didn't. Says it all. :-)
ReplyDeleteHello Anonymous,
DeleteI didn't sidestep the issue, because as far as I'm concerned there is no issue. I simply said two people wanted the box set. The fact that no-one else put a bid in is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.
It's yourself and Arthur Butterworth who appear to have the issue!
Very kind regards
David
BCNU
Anonymous, David is right. To me it wouldn't seem to make much sense discussing and arguing over that series without knowing your personal approach to, if you've watched it. I can speak only for myself of course. I was among those people who with a good deal of expectation, even excitement, were waiting for it to be screened. Images and especially the 9 minutes trailer had been raising hopes. Then, after only one episode or so I became disappointed by it (more on my website) but kept watching it to the very end. To sum up my position, it's an interesting failure with some redeeming values (I know it's quite generally speaking here).
ReplyDeleteSo, although not being in accordance with David on it regarding many instances we can still exchange on it nevertheless without just telling each other how awful/great it is. There's a true Prisoner, for sure. - BCNU!
Hello nr6de
DeleteThank you for your comment. We have indeed discussed, and still do exchange views and ideas about THEPRIS6NER, even though we are not in accordance with this series, because you have an open mind, and that's the important thing.
Very kind regards
David
BCNU
Perhaps they wanted to buy it as part of the movement that now exists to destroy every single print and copy of the awful rehash.
ReplyDelete> Perhaps they wanted to buy it as part of the movement that now exists to destroy every single print and copy of the awful rehash.
ReplyDeleteYou mean the production company itself, who stil cringe that they managed to create such a waste of time and space?
:-)
Hello Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteyou sidestepped the issue! :)
There are many reasons why one might not like the new series, but to dismiss it simply because it isn't like the original is rubbish, in my opinion. For myself I've come to the conclusion that it's worth to watch it critically, but to watch it nevertheless.
And two bids are more than many memorabilia items of the original series get. (Not that I wish that more people were interested in it, or maybe both of the series, in general).
Kind regards,
Jana
The main difference between the original Prisoner and the rehash is that the original had something to say. The rehash was nothing more than a cynical exercise in cashing-in on a known brand. The makers just didn't understand or care that McGoohan's Prisoner was a visionary masterpiece unlike, say your bog-standard TV franchise like Bionic Woman or Knight Rider.
ReplyDeleteHello Arthur,
DeleteOh dear, we seem to have been here before! So I shall say again, Patrick McGoohan actually read the six scripts for THEPRIS6NER, and what's more he approved of them. Further more McGoohan wanted to be in the series himself, he wanted to play the character of TWO.
Yourself and Anonymous seem to be at odds with McGoohan over the 2009 series. He himself did not place the original on a pedestal, but looked on it as just a job.
Very kind regards
David
BCNU
> you sidestepped the issue! :)
ReplyDeleteNo, my issue was there first, David's secondary issue was just a distraction (so needed no side-stepping), like the rehash was compared to the original, a dreadul distraction from Pat's timeless classic.
Hello Anon,
DeleteIf I have an issue, it's whenever I ask people who are critical, and at times are quite scathing about THEPRIS6NER, they decline to say whether or not they have watched it. I wonder why?
Kind regards
David
BCNU
"cashing-in on a known brand" - Agree, that's what they had in mind. And they blew it for a variety of reasons. The P09 wasn't successful, to my knowing not commercially. Artistically it depends on what you're looking at. However, for the sake of a decent discussion here it cannot be helpful, can it, telling every time one meets how terrible a flaw it is. At one point one needs to get down and involved, very much in detail, and tell what you like or dislike about it. Therefore you'd have to say whether you watched it or not, completely or not etc. That's al, that's David's concern. I'd even disagree with David. Patrick may have studied the scripts, liked to play a cameo in it. But I doubt he'd have been given considerable influence to grant his own vision which - I take it - would have been different from what we saw. Physically, regarding his health, he'd hardly been capable of getting involved in the production. - BCNU!
ReplyDeleteHello nr6de,
DeleteYou make my point precisely. I always think that just as long as someone has watched a television series/programme all the way through and does not like it, they have every right to voice their opinion about it. Hopefully giving reasons why they distlike it, if only, as you say, only for a decent discussion. It's easy to say I dislike and even hate something, but fail to give a reason. At the same time, if someone says they dislike a television series, but have not even bothered themslves to watch the series all the way through, how do they know they would dislike it? Are they merely going with the crowd that made up their minds about THEPRIS6NER even before the mini-series went into productiuon?
And I could not agree more with you, that even if Pat McGoohan had taken the offer of a cameo role, he most certainly would not have been allowed to have any input into either the script or the series as a whole, and he probably wouldn't have expected it.
Very kind regards
David
BCNU
> Patrick McGoohan actually read the six scripts for THEPRIS6NER, and what's more he approved of them. Further more McGoohan wanted to be in the series himself, he wanted to play the character of TWO.
ReplyDeleteCan you please reference that outside of the programme's own publicity blurb?
Hello Anonymous,
DeleteI have to say that I find it extremely difficult writing to someone who hides behind a veil of anonimity. Someone who cannot even be bothered to give him or herself a psuedonim. Because YOU have the advantage, as I do not have a clue to whom I am writing, or if indeed to ten different people who go by "Anonymous!" Nevertheless;
I read in an issue of SFX magazine that McGoohan had read all the scripts and approved of them. Also it was said by Ian Mackellen in a television interview that McGoohan wanted the role of Two.
Very kind regards
David
BCNU
Rather than SFX magazine, I would go with the words of Pat's widow, Joan: "They wanted Patrick to have some part in it, but he adamantly didn't want to be involved." That is also far more likely to have been Pat's response, especially given the way it turned out. Can you imagine the embarrassment?!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, my right to remain anonymous as an individual is one of the series' themes - and don't you forget it.
Well Anon,
DeleteWe are on our high horse aren't we! As far as I'm concerned, anyone can be as anonymous as they like. My point was simply that unless one anonymous is identifiable from another one, it makes life very difficult when replying to comments.
"And don't you forget it" I think this is way beyond the pale!
Judging by your comments, no matter what I say will ever make any impact upon you. I feel that this subject has come to a natural end. I shall leave you to your dislike of THEPRIS6NER, and you can leave me to my appreciation of the series. In other words to agree to disagree!
Regards
D6 {Anonymous Mark II!}
> I feel that this subject has come to a natural end
ReplyDeleteWell, David, it seems more to have come to an unnatural end, because most of the posts above are not in their original order, so the chain of comments has become incoherent. Is someone going back and re-editing what they've originally said? The net result is somewhat disorientating, even for the anonymous amongst us.
Hello,
DeleteNone of the comments have been edited or moved. It's just the way they are, how comments have been replied to. I have no control how comments appear, I can only delete comments if necessary. Otherwise they appear as they do.
Regards
David
BCNU
What? What, Anonymous, is it that makes you think the above comments had been edited in any order fitting David's needs? What's the problem in telling you watched the P09 or you didn't? The point is we (no: any substantial discussion) can't go on talking about that subject merely on the basis of opinions, likes, dislikes without fleshing them out and say e.g. here's one portion of the series I find great because... or this thing's just crap. But, of course, one needs to come forth and drop the guard, which is a disguise, in order to have fruitful debate. Otherwise we'd be better off to go shopping. That's all. - BCNU!
ReplyDeleteWe've come too far from my original comment, which was that two people bidding for an item on Ebay doesn't make it "a wanted series after all!", which is what David claimed. The rest of the world didn't want it. In fact, if the two bidders were misled into thinking they were purchasing the 1960s masterpiece, then we are left with only David actually WANTING it, which you've got to admit is kindda weird.
ReplyDeleteI guess reading the comments more carefully would ensure clarity. The comments answer the "original" comment, even for the anonymous amongst us. But I guess they don't wait for answers or an discussion but for nodding anonymous numbers to agree them.
DeleteHello Anon,
DeleteI didn't claim that the world wanted THEPRIS6NER, I simply said that two people wanted the box set, hence they were bidding for it on ebay, thus the series is wanted by two people.
How can two people be misled into thinking they were purchasing the 1960's series, when there's a picture of Jim Caviezel on the front of the box set?
David
BCNU
> The comments answer the "original" comment, even for the anonymous amongst us
ReplyDeleteYes, that's bleeding obvious, but it doesn't make for coherent continuity of reading. For example, David refers to Arthur Butterworth in the 4th comment in this thread, whereas Mr B himself doesn't put his spoke in until the 7th. I suppose in 20 years time we'll be arguing about which order these comments should be read in. :-)
Hello Anon,
DeleteI like your delicate sense of humour!
When one replies to a comment you reply to that comment, it doesn't work like threads on forums.
David
BCNU
>>...simply shows that there are two people who don't recognise this new-fangled Prisoner for what it is, << I grant you this statement, no problem. However, it is and remains an allegation until both buyers tell us what incited them to buy the P09.
ReplyDeleteDavid's response is simple, he wants to know if your statement is founded and on what specifically which can only be having watches the show. There's no use in any further exchange of confessions of beliefs unless, as I said before, you get down into detail of the series, into each episode, and show us what's actually wrong (or good, for that matter) with it. - BCNU!
No, you're failing to distinguish quantity from quality. This is not an issue of whether P09 is of any worth or how little or how much anyone's watched of it, it's an issue of whether it's wanted, which David says it is and I propose it isn't. If two people turn up at a funeral, which is what P09 is like, compared to the wedding that was (in your shorthand) P67, then the chances are the deceased was not loved by many.
DeleteYou're trying to make a point where there is none. Two people bid on the box set, and therefore two people tried to get it, wanted to buy it. And thats fine. The box set was sold unlike many other items that belong to both series, the original as well as the new one. Now, if a box set of the original series isn't sold, or if only one or two poeple bid for it, does this make the series unwanted?
DeleteThe real point is that you are telling again and again that the series isn't wanted. In this way you try to prove it's bad quality. So the question why you think so about the quality is a logical one. In a way you stick on quantity while repeating your claims about quality.
Jana
I think it's more for David to make a case for the series being wanted based on ONLY TWO bidders. The case for it not being wanted is admirably made by the billions who didn't bid for it, haven't clamoured for its rescreening and would be happy never to hear of it again. Over to David?
DeleteHello Anon,
DeleteI get the feeling from your comments, that you know me, or have known of me, but that is by the by.
For myself I don't have to make a case for the series being wanted, based on two people bidding for the box set. But I will make a case for THEPRIS6NER.
McG's 'Prisoner' was ahead of it's time, THEPRIS6NER is "of" its time, and yet there are homages paid to the original series. THEPRIS6NER was thought to have been a remake, what's the point of remaking 'the Prisoner?' No, THEPRIS6NER is a reinterpretation of the original series, and contains many aspects of McG's series. THEPRIS6NER is a reinvention of the original series. It deals with the dependency on drugs, surveillance, it makes the viewer question his place of being, is what we see, experience real? Or are we living out the dreams of someone? Are we really here, or in some other place?
I could go on, but instead I will give you, and others reading this, a number of links to some of my blog articles which I have written about THEPRIS6NER, of which there are 198 in total, of which these are merely samples.
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_5.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-pris6ner-here-is-bus-travelling.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/thepris6ner_3.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/thepris6ner_2.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_25.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_14.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_6.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/thepris6ner.html
Many of the old questions are still asked;
* Why did the Prisoner resign?
*Who is the Prisoner?
* Where is the village?
* Who is No.2?
* Why has No.6 been brought to the village?
* Will No.6 escape to his previous life, or will he simply survive?
* Who can No.6 trust?
*What is the Village Guardian?
* Why are no names used in the village?
* How come citizens are known only by their number?
*Will the truth behind the village be finally discovered?
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/thepris6ner_28.html
The above are an assortment of links to my blog. If you wish a case to be made for THEPRIS6NER, I strongly suggest you read them, and many others, they are just a taste of what I have written on the subject. They say far more than I could write here.
David
BCNU
> For myself I don't have to make a case for the series being wanted, based on two people bidding for the box set.
ReplyDeleteWell, you do, because that's what you wrote and that's what I challenged you to substantiate, but it's Sunday and I'll accept you can't.
Anonymous,
DeleteThis is the case I have put forward through some of my blog articles, as I stated in a previous comment reply, and apart from this I have absolutely nothing more to say on the matter. Because it seems far more important to you, than it does for me. In my articles I put an excellent case for THEPRIS6NER, and many die-hard fans of the original series, who have read them, have given the series a second chance, and now find appreication for it. Whether or not you ever will, is entirely up to you.
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_5.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-pris6ner-here-is-bus-travelling.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/thepris6ner_3.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/thepris6ner_2.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_25.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_14.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/thepris6ner_6.html
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/thepris6ner.html
Many of the old questions are still asked;
* Why did the Prisoner resign?
*Who is the Prisoner?
* Where is the village?
* Who is No.2?
* Why has No.6 been brought to the village?
* Will No.6 escape to his previous life, or will he simply survive?
* Who can No.6 trust?
*What is the Village Guardian?
* Why are no names used in the village?
* How come citizens are known only by their number?
*Will the truth behind the village be finally discovered?
http://david-stimpson.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/thepris6ner_28.html
It is entirely up to you if you choose to ignore the above links. I have absolutely nothing more to say on this matter, as far more has been made out of what was a simple piece of blog.
David
BCNU
I disagree. I have learned from these comments that McGoohan did not want anything to do with P09, which I am relieved about, as I always wondered why on earth he would endorse it. For that knowledge I thank my fellow Anonymous.
DeleteAnd also we have had quite a few of this blog's readers actually joining in a discussion for once. Normally it is David writing daily for the twenty of us and nobody saying anything.
All in all a worthwhile thread.
Hello to another anonymous, No3, I guess.
Delete>> I have learned from these comments that McGoohan did not want anything to do with P09, which I am relieved about, as I always wondered why on earth he would endorse it.
Hm, regarding this point I've learned or better have come to the conclusion that he perhaps really wanted to play 2 after reading the scripts, but in the end maybe wasn't happy with the way the series was planned. It's a matter of interpretation of different statements, I guess. To be sure we would need much more information we will never get, sadly.
Jana
I'm sure it was more a case of him not actually reading the scripts at all (why read for a role you're not capable of playing?) but making a passing offhand comment that he would rather play #2 (presumably because it would be more of an acting challenge for him in contrast to his iconic #6). His widow's remarks are pretty unambiguous that he wanted nothing to do with it, which included perusing the scripts.
DeleteI can believe that he didn't want to be involved in the end. As I said. He would have had his reasons. But I still think he would have read the scripts. Why? Because The Prisoner was his masterpiece, his brain child, and because he had had plans to write or even written a script himself, as he said more than once. Even if he hadn't any plans to take part anyway, he might have still been interested or curious for what they had written. It's guessing on my part, admittedly. But to me it seems plausible.
DeleteIs there a link where one can read this interview with Joan McGoohan?
Kind regards
> Is there a link where one can read this interview with Joan McGoohan?
DeleteThe complete interview has disappeared from online, but there are fragments here under Production:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner_(2009_miniseries)
and towards the very bottom of the front page of this merchandise site
http://www.priz.biz/
> I get the feeling from your comments, that you know me, or have known of me
ReplyDeleteWe have never met, David, and never will, unless of course our paths have crossed in the past, when you deliberately went out of your way not to dress as a blog-writer, in which case I failed to recognise you.
>>an issue of whether it's wanted, which David says it is and I propose it isn't. <<
ReplyDelete100 billion flies feed on shit. They can't be wrong can they? But does the discourse stop here? This is merely a statistical ascertainment, not one about quality.
>>This is not an issue of whether P09 is of any worth or how little or how much anyone's watched of it, it's an issue of whether it's wanted, << So then, what else, what’s is all about? We’re moving in circles. You’re right, David’s wrong.
One final remark as far as my participation in this particular subject is concerned. You can't honestly maintain the P09 "isn't wanted" by citing two lonely bidders for a video copy release and tell us they were "misled". Were they, did you ask them? Weren’t there others in the past who bid and bought? You just can’t conclude because the great majority didn't bid for the P09 video, well, that shows us nobody wants it. This cannot be a viable way of evaluating the (possible) merits or flaws of the so-called Prisoner remake. Many or most critics loathed it. There's a good deal of scepticism, true. Like I wrote earlier it's an interesting failure to me, for a variety of reasons. It’s time you explained to us why, with regard to contents, why people would be sceptical towards it. What do think exactly is or was wrong with that reinvention? The foundation of your conviction, that’s all we want and nothing less. What so difficult about it? - BCNU!
P.S. And please, don't just tell us "You won't get it. My life is my own."