A life time fan and Prisonerologist of the 1960's series 'the Prisoner', a leading authority on the subject, a short story writer, and now Prisoner novelist.
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Friday, 27 April 2012
Teabreak Teaser
If Portmieiron had not been available for the filming of 'the Prisoner,' ie if Clough Williams-Ellis had refused permission to film there, where was the second choice location for the Village?
Yes it would. But actually the Butlins holiday camp at Pwllheli was to have been lined up for the Village. Thank the Lord Clough said yes, that's all I can say.
Why would they have gone all the way to Pwllheli though, when Butlins at Bognor was just down the A24, and any number of other Butlins or Pontins camps were much more accessible from London. This sounds like a myth to me. I assume there is a reputable source for this?
I do know McGoohan was familair with Butlins at Pwllheli and it's obvious enough that he used some Holiday Camp ethos in his Village depictions.
"This production-still from The Prisoner always makes me think that these three strangely garbed ladies were on day-release from the Star Trek studio. In fact their presence has a special intrigue. They were in fact a little cabaret act called The Candy Sisters. They were known for doing an act where they sang songs in German, French, Italian and Danish... (maybe others for all I know - Polish and Czech would be cool). I thought this was intriguing, given the cosmopolitan ethos that the Village is given right from the taxi-driver upwards. I'm guessing those odd outfits are their own costumes from their Act. Even more intriguing is the fact that they were appearing at Butlins Pwllehi and were personally asked to come over for filming by Patrick McGoohan himself. The Candy Sisters were apparently chauffered from Pwellhi to Portmeirion by Everyman car each day they were involved in filming and returned to Butlins each evening, in good time to perform their 40-minute spots for the 1966 season's happy campers. When this turn of events was reported it was mentioned that the girls excitedly recalled having *close-ups* with the star." http://numbersixwasinnocent.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/mcgoohan-where-am-i-i-know-there-are.html
I read somewhere, something one of the production crew had said, that the Butlins holiday camp at Pwllheli was going to be the location of the Village if Portmeirion had not been available. Yet this pales into insignificance when compared to your piece of extremely interesting informatiom, that of the three girls seen in 'Dance of the Dead,' who No.2 introduced No.6 to. I always thought they looked out of place in the Village somehow, by the clothes they are wearing. I always find obscure pieces of information such as this absolutely fascinating, where on earth did you find it?
It was in the pages of "The Stage", that hoary old entertainment weekly, I've got the cutting someplace.
It is certainly intriguing to imagine what might have happened if Clough-Ellis had said No. It's difficult to guess what McGoohan might have done. One assumes he wouldn't have asked until Lew Grade had given him the finance to make the project possible at all.
Some info I have picked up over the years suggests it was the best piece of business Clough-Ellis ever did, as I understand visitors to Portmeirion in the following few years after 1967, went from ten thousand to nearer one hundred thousand; but I have no idea how reputable this info is... ;-D
Ah, the Stage, well I suppose it would have to have been.
The best piece of business Clough ever did, that's true I should imagine. Mind you the money would be the driving force, as Portmeirion was built on the cheap. So much so that in more recent years buildings in Portmeirion have had to be almost demolished one by one, and totally rebuilt.
As for the visitors figures, that sounds about right.
** As for the visitors figures, that sounds about right. **
Another point to emphasise how popular The Prisoner had been in the country in 1966/69 then, and how disreputable the sources must be - that suggest otherwise.... ;-D
Well if memory serves, I think you'll find that 'the Prisoner' was not so popular at the time 1967-68 with the general public. The majority of the populas thought 'the Prisoner' the biggest load of old rubbish on the television. The public who were asked said so. In fact after the screening of 'Fall Out,' David Tomblin was in a public house, and someone asked "Who made that load of old codswallop?" And David replied I did, and an argument ensued, as legend has it.
I know your own dad didn't like it, but I recall mine watching it with me and I'm pretty sure it was in an ad-break of Fallout when he remarked, "This is rubbish - but good rubbish". He liked The Avengers too. I suppose he might have been speaking allegorically, but he'd long been a big fan of Danger Man too. That's the thing with opinions, they vary, like individuals. Numbers are more reliable.
The audience for The Prisoner was measured bouncing around 10M, which seems respectable enough to me. Those figures were known at the time, because McGoohan quotes them in an article at the time. More recently, Andrew Pixley confirms them in his book that accompanied the Prisoner dvd set a few years back. I think the evidence for the show not being popular at the time is very close to zero. It was not "Sunday Night at the London Palladium" but for a secret agent show it was very successful.
Indeed a ten million audience is very respectable. I was also the only person in my class at school to like 'the Prisoner,' and I felt alone with no-one to talk about it to. What's more, at the time, memories of the series were fading, except for the opening sequence and the theme music, both stayed inside my head. And like your father I was, and still am, a huge fan of 'Danger Man.' And I like your father's words "This is rubbish - but good rubbish," that's an opinion which is new to me. People generally love or hate 'Fall Out.' And as you say "That's the thing with opinions, they vary, like individuals. Numbers are more reliable," yes I like that. Yes, I think I was probably getting mxed up with the series up until 'Fall Out,' it was 'Fall Out' that caused all the controversy. That was a mistake on my part, we all have to make mistakes, sometimes we have to. As for my father, he was very conventional. I think he hated 'the Prisoner' with a passion because he didn't understand it, nor tried to understand it. He condemned 'the Prisoner' in much the same way as many fans of the original series condemned THEPRIS6NER-09.
Can I just add that I was also the only one in my class at school to like The Prisoner.I honestly did'nt know another soul who watched it.My family thought it novel,but the sitting room emptied on a Sunday evening when the show was screened, leaving me to watch and audio record it by myself. It obviously must have been reasonably popular,as the reaction after Fall Out indicates.
The reaction to 'Fall Out' was becasue the general public said they didn't understand it. For myself as a boy of 12, 'Fall Out' was purley action adventure, and all I wanted to know was, would the Prisoner escape, which of course pyhsically he did, but mentally he was still a Prisoner, and it all begins all over again.
Inverlair Lodge. (Chuckle!)
ReplyDeleteBCNU );oB
Hi Steve,
DeleteYes I had a chuckle at this, and I can see the irony, especially when one considers George Markstein, his claims, and his role in 'the Prisoner.'
As ever
David
BCNU
Inverary would have been the cat's whiskers... :-)
ReplyDeleteHello Moor,
ReplyDeleteYes it would. But actually the Butlins holiday camp at Pwllheli was to have been lined up for the Village. Thank the Lord Clough said yes, that's all I can say.
Regards
David
BCNU
Why would they have gone all the way to Pwllheli though, when Butlins at Bognor was just down the A24, and any number of other Butlins or Pontins camps were much more accessible from London. This sounds like a myth to me. I assume there is a reputable source for this?
DeleteI do know McGoohan was familair with Butlins at Pwllheli and it's obvious enough that he used some Holiday Camp ethos in his Village depictions.
"This production-still from The Prisoner always makes me think that these three strangely garbed ladies were on day-release from the Star Trek studio. In fact their presence has a special intrigue. They were in fact a little cabaret act called The Candy Sisters. They were known for doing an act where they sang songs in German, French, Italian and Danish... (maybe others for all I know - Polish and Czech would be cool). I thought this was intriguing, given the cosmopolitan ethos that the Village is given right from the taxi-driver upwards. I'm guessing those odd outfits are their own costumes from their Act. Even more intriguing is the fact that they were appearing at Butlins Pwllehi and were personally asked to come over for filming by Patrick McGoohan himself. The Candy Sisters were apparently chauffered from Pwellhi to Portmeirion by Everyman car each day they were involved in filming and returned to Butlins each evening, in good time to perform their 40-minute spots for the 1966 season's happy campers. When this turn of events was reported it was mentioned that the girls excitedly recalled having *close-ups* with the star."
http://numbersixwasinnocent.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/mcgoohan-where-am-i-i-know-there-are.html
Hi de Hi
Hello Moor,
DeleteI read somewhere, something one of the production crew had said, that the Butlins holiday camp at Pwllheli was going to be the location of the Village if Portmeirion had not been available.
Yet this pales into insignificance when compared to your piece of extremely interesting informatiom, that of the three girls seen in 'Dance of the Dead,' who No.2 introduced No.6 to. I always thought they looked out of place in the Village somehow, by the clothes they are wearing.
I always find obscure pieces of information such as this absolutely fascinating, where on earth did you find it?
As ever
David
BCNU
It was in the pages of "The Stage", that hoary old entertainment weekly, I've got the cutting someplace.
DeleteIt is certainly intriguing to imagine what might have happened if Clough-Ellis had said No. It's difficult to guess what McGoohan might have done. One assumes he wouldn't have asked until Lew Grade had given him the finance to make the project possible at all.
Some info I have picked up over the years suggests it was the best piece of business Clough-Ellis ever did, as I understand visitors to Portmeirion in the following few years after 1967, went from ten thousand to nearer one hundred thousand; but I have no idea how reputable this info is... ;-D
Hello Moor,
ReplyDeleteAh, the Stage, well I suppose it would have to have been.
The best piece of business Clough ever did, that's true I should imagine. Mind you the money would be the driving force, as Portmeirion was built on the cheap. So much so that in more recent years buildings in Portmeirion have had to be almost demolished one by one, and totally rebuilt.
As for the visitors figures, that sounds about right.
Kind regards
David
Be seeing you
** As for the visitors figures, that sounds about right. **
ReplyDeleteAnother point to emphasise how popular The Prisoner had been in the country in 1966/69 then, and how disreputable the sources must be - that suggest otherwise.... ;-D
Hello Moor,
DeleteWell if memory serves, I think you'll find that 'the Prisoner' was not so popular at the time 1967-68 with the general public. The majority of the populas thought 'the Prisoner' the biggest load of old rubbish on the television. The public who were asked said so. In fact after the screening of 'Fall Out,' David Tomblin was in a public house, and someone asked "Who made that load of old codswallop?" And David replied I did, and an argument ensued, as legend has it.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
I know your own dad didn't like it, but I recall mine watching it with me and I'm pretty sure it was in an ad-break of Fallout when he remarked, "This is rubbish - but good rubbish". He liked The Avengers too. I suppose he might have been speaking allegorically, but he'd long been a big fan of Danger Man too. That's the thing with opinions, they vary, like individuals. Numbers are more reliable.
ReplyDeleteThe audience for The Prisoner was measured bouncing around 10M, which seems respectable enough to me. Those figures were known at the time, because McGoohan quotes them in an article at the time. More recently, Andrew Pixley confirms them in his book that accompanied the Prisoner dvd set a few years back. I think the evidence for the show not being popular at the time is very close to zero. It was not "Sunday Night at the London Palladium" but for a secret agent show it was very successful.
Hello Moor,
DeleteIndeed a ten million audience is very respectable.
I was also the only person in my class at school to like 'the Prisoner,' and I felt alone with no-one to talk about it to. What's more, at the time, memories of the series were fading, except for the opening sequence and the theme music, both stayed inside my head.
And like your father I was, and still am, a huge fan of 'Danger Man.' And I like your father's words "This is rubbish - but good rubbish," that's an opinion which is new to me. People generally love or hate 'Fall Out.' And as you say "That's the thing with opinions, they vary, like individuals. Numbers are more reliable," yes I like that.
Yes, I think I was probably getting mxed up with the series up until 'Fall Out,' it was 'Fall Out' that caused all the controversy. That was a mistake on my part, we all have to make mistakes, sometimes we have to.
As for my father, he was very conventional. I think he hated 'the Prisoner' with a passion because he didn't understand it, nor tried to understand it. He condemned 'the Prisoner' in much the same way as many fans of the original series condemned THEPRIS6NER-09.
Kind regards
David
Be seeing you
Can I just add that I was also the only one in my class at school to like The Prisoner.I honestly did'nt know another soul who watched it.My family thought it novel,but the sitting room emptied on a Sunday evening when the show was screened, leaving me to watch and audio record it by myself.
DeleteIt obviously must have been reasonably popular,as the reaction after Fall Out indicates.
Best Wishes,
Anna
Hello Anna,
DeleteThe reaction to 'Fall Out' was becasue the general public said they didn't understand it. For myself as a boy of 12, 'Fall Out' was purley action adventure, and all I wanted to know was, would the Prisoner escape, which of course pyhsically he did, but mentally he was still a Prisoner, and it all begins all over again.
I will be replying to you email soon.
Kind Regards
David
BCNU