A life time fan and Prisonerologist of the 1960's series 'the Prisoner', a leading authority on the subject, a short story writer, and now Prisoner novelist.
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Sunday, 27 May 2012
Teabreak Teaser
What was achieved in the episode 'Dance of the Dead?
Yes, the fact that Number Six is supposed to dead to the outside world, appears to be forgotten by the time of 'Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling!' 'Death by jury,' more like death by 'mob rule,' just like the lynching of Johnson in 'Living In Harmony!' Death is certainly a key element of 'Dance of the Dead,' Number Six sentenced to death. A termination order against Dutton. The death of Number 34. Number Six tried to kill the machine, and orginally the script had the doctor-Number 40 burying one of his failed experiments, and everyone at the dance dead at the end of the episode, everyone except Number Six! The death sentence served against Number 6 was an empty threat, as they would not deem to harm someone who was seen to have a future with them in the Village. But think for a moment what a mistake it would have been, if those citizens baying and screaming for the Prisoner's blood had actually laid hands on him.....they would have physically torn him to shreds! Talk about the rules, there is but one rule in 'Dance of the Dead,' 'mob rule!'
** Yes, the fact that Number Six is supposed to be dead to the outside world, appears to be forgotten by the time of 'Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling! **
Many Happy Returns wouldn't make a lot of sense either if "Dance of the Dead" were Ep.2 as some like to insist is the case.... :-D
With regards to your own reservations about "Do not Forsake Me...." ... Doesn't this make very good reason for No6 being put in a different body? This episode has several different aspects that are all clever devices to get No6 outside the village again in a way that still deal with what would otherwise be plot-hole/continuity issues.
Perhaps the "amended" body which was presumably dropped somewhere in the sea, so that it was picked up, wasn't found. That would explain why the death of Number 6 had not reached the ears of his former colleagues, and Janet Portland.
As for 'Dance of the Dead' being the second episode, that was according to Film Libarian Tony Sloman who worked on the series, who has the series in the film library sequence. He is the one who provided that information back in the 1990's.
Anthony Skene wrote both episodes 'Many Happy Returns' and 'Dance of the Dead,' and originally Number 6 was supposed to have died in an accident at sea in 'Many Happy Returns,' which actually makes more sense than it supposedly happening in 'Dance of the Dead.' The trouble was the final scene was changed, and the idea that Number 6 had died in an accident at sea dropped from the episode. But Anthony Skene liked the idea so much, that he managed to have it incoproated into 'Dance of the Dead' instead. So if the original idea had been kept for 'Many Happy Returns,' then the scene in the mortuary of 'Dance of the Dead' would never have taken place. In fact, if many original ideas had been maintained in each episode, the whole series would have had a quite different look to it.
And of course 'Many Happy Returns' wouldn't have made a great deal of sense if 'Dance of the Dead' was the second episode, not if Number 6 was supposed to have died in an accident at sea in that episode.
Yes, I can see the sense in having Number 6's mind re-housed in another man's body, because to the rest of the world he's dead. But of course the moment Janet Portland realised he wasn't dead, in that lover's tender scene, she would have realised that the report of his death had been highly exaggerated.
It's all very well having had so many different writers working on 'the Prisoner,' but I sometimes feel that the series would have benefitted from a few less, so that some continuity could have been maintained between the episodes.
I don't think Janet *knew* it was her man... She was emotionally confused, but how could she accept that her fiancee was now in a different body? That would be quite impossible, so she would have pulled herself together again, being the practical sort of woman she was.
The situation vis-a-vis her dad seems more puzzling at first as he seems to dispute that ZM73 can be who he says he is. But the fact that he has No6 followed and kidnapped back, once Seltzman is located, shows he was just double-bluffing No6 all along. If Portland had imagined No6 to be dead he would have mentioned that, so the fact that this is not brought up by anyone seems to demonstrate that they were all in on the village, as of course does the fact that they once again have the free use of No6's old apartment, just as they did when Mrs. Butterworth was there.
However the fact that Janet did not appear to know that her lover was supposed to be dead then begs the question of who exactly it was that the village were wanting to persuade that the agent WAS dead..... The only thing that makes sense is one of the other sides.... implying very strongly that there must be more than one village I think - a notion clearly corroborated from within the series when the village is said to be in the Baltic, off the coast of Africa and eventually apparently within reach of the A20.
As to all the script variations, it demonstrates a very firm editorial influence, where the writers have their ideas tossed about and re-invented by some unseen Number One.
Yes, Janet was certainly put through the ringer. First her fiance disappears without trace. Her father Sir Charles tells her that he has no idea where he is, and she's not sure if her father is lying to her or not. If he is keeping Janet in the dark regarding her finace, then that's cruel enough. But then there's this chap now living in his house, even has his car. And after he claims to be her fiance, you are right of course, how could she possibly come to terms with that? What we don't see after they have kissed in that tender love scene between Janet and the Colonel, is what they talk about afterwards. Surely the Prisoner would have told her what had happened to him, how his mind came to be in another man's body, even if it was difficult for Janet to comprehend. And then to make matters worse {if indeed they could get much worse} she loses her fiance for a second time, after he's gone into the continent in search of Seltzman!
Regarding Sir Charles Portland, ZM73 tries to prove to him that he is ZM73. Of course Sir Charles finds this difficult to swallow. Yet at the same time he doesn't recognise the Colonel. Does this mean the Colonel wasn't working for Sir Charles. Or he might not wish to make the identity of the Colonel known to the Prisoner for whatever reason. That's an interesting comment of Sir Charles double-bluffing the Prisoner. If he knew about the Village, did Sir Charles send the Colonel to the Village in the first place? And if he did why didn't he recognise the Colonel in his study of his home? And if Sir Charles knew about the Village, why send Potter to follow the Prisoner, when the Undertaker was already doing that?
Yes, they certainly have free-reign over the Prisoner's house. First by Mrs Butterworth, and then it's made ready for the Colonel. It might be a Government house, that might explain it.
I'm not surprised that Janet didn't know her fiance was supposed to be dead, after all her father told her nothing of his disappearence, if he knew anything about it in the first place, and even if he did he still didn't tell her. That's a very good question, who was the Village administration trying to convince that the Prisoner was dead? In the original script for 'Many Happy Returns' Mrs Butterworth was supposed to have handed No.6 a copy of The Tally Ho with the headline 'Plane Lost Over Sea No hope of Survivors.' What would be the point in that story in The Tally Ho, that No.6 is dead, when the Prisoner would be out and about the Village the next day? Or was that issue of The Tally Ho simply meant for the television viewer?
More than one Village - yes, that's been made mention of before, a long time ago. Because of the A 20 one fan, years ago now, suggested that the Village was somewhere near Dover, I think it might have been spotted if it was!
"As to all the script variations, it demonstrates a very firm editorial influence, where the writers have their ideas tossed about and re-invented by some unseen Number One."
Yes I like that idea very much, Number 1 being Patrick McGoohan of course!
The real life name of the Village cat in 'Dance of the Dead' Tammy [if memory serves me right}. She was a replacement for the original cat to be used, because it would not behave in front of camera.
Even more remarkable, is that Fairclough ALSO got it right.
Talking of which - I once met actor Peter Adamson on the Underground when coming away from a London Group get together about 20 years ago. I spoke to him (I merely asked the time) but his answer was very brief and he was visibly uncomfortable. I wasn't surprised, as I was fully aware of the dreadful story behind this sad man.
How I miss those evenings in Waterloo, where I'd regularly see 'Buster' selling flowers outside Waterloo Station!
That Number Six is dead to the outside world. Hence the title and the reason he escapes death by 'jury'.
ReplyDeleteHello Steve,
DeleteYes, the fact that Number Six is supposed to dead to the outside world, appears to be forgotten by the time of 'Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling!'
'Death by jury,' more like death by 'mob rule,' just like the lynching of Johnson in 'Living In Harmony!'
Death is certainly a key element of 'Dance of the Dead,' Number Six sentenced to death. A termination order against Dutton. The death of Number 34. Number Six tried to kill the machine, and orginally the script had the doctor-Number 40 burying one of his failed experiments, and everyone at the dance dead at the end of the episode, everyone except Number Six!
The death sentence served against Number 6 was an empty threat, as they would not deem to harm someone who was seen to have a future with them in the Village. But think for a moment what a mistake it would have been, if those citizens baying and screaming for the Prisoner's blood had actually laid hands on him.....they would have physically torn him to shreds! Talk about the rules, there is but one rule in 'Dance of the Dead,' 'mob rule!'
Regards
David
BCNU
** Yes, the fact that Number Six is supposed to be dead to the outside world, appears to be forgotten by the time of 'Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling! **
DeleteMany Happy Returns wouldn't make a lot of sense either if "Dance of the Dead" were Ep.2 as some like to insist is the case.... :-D
With regards to your own reservations about "Do not Forsake Me...." ... Doesn't this make very good reason for No6 being put in a different body? This episode has several different aspects that are all clever devices to get No6 outside the village again in a way that still deal with what would otherwise be plot-hole/continuity issues.
Hello Moor,
DeletePerhaps the "amended" body which was presumably dropped somewhere in the sea, so that it was picked up, wasn't found. That would explain why the death of Number 6 had not reached the ears of his former colleagues, and Janet Portland.
As for 'Dance of the Dead' being the second episode, that was according to Film Libarian Tony Sloman who worked on the series, who has the series in the film library sequence. He is the one who provided that information back in the 1990's.
Anthony Skene wrote both episodes 'Many Happy Returns' and 'Dance of the Dead,' and originally Number 6 was supposed to have died in an accident at sea in 'Many Happy Returns,' which actually makes more sense than it supposedly happening in 'Dance of the Dead.' The trouble was the final scene was changed, and the idea that Number 6 had died in an accident at sea dropped from the episode. But Anthony Skene liked the idea so much, that he managed to have it incoproated into 'Dance of the Dead' instead. So if the original idea had been kept for 'Many Happy Returns,' then the scene in the mortuary of 'Dance of the Dead' would never have taken place. In fact, if many original ideas had been maintained in each episode, the whole series would have had a quite different look to it.
And of course 'Many Happy Returns' wouldn't have made a great deal of sense if 'Dance of the Dead' was the second episode, not if Number 6 was supposed to have died in an accident at sea in that episode.
Yes, I can see the sense in having Number 6's mind re-housed in another man's body, because to the rest of the world he's dead. But of course the moment Janet Portland realised he wasn't dead, in that lover's tender scene, she would have realised that the report of his death had been highly exaggerated.
It's all very well having had so many different writers working on 'the Prisoner,' but I sometimes feel that the series would have benefitted from a few less, so that some continuity could have been maintained between the episodes.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
I don't think Janet *knew* it was her man... She was emotionally confused, but how could she accept that her fiancee was now in a different body? That would be quite impossible, so she would have pulled herself together again, being the practical sort of woman she was.
DeleteThe situation vis-a-vis her dad seems more puzzling at first as he seems to dispute that ZM73 can be who he says he is. But the fact that he has No6 followed and kidnapped back, once Seltzman is located, shows he was just double-bluffing No6 all along. If Portland had imagined No6 to be dead he would have mentioned that, so the fact that this is not brought up by anyone seems to demonstrate that they were all in on the village, as of course does the fact that they once again have the free use of No6's old apartment, just as they did when Mrs. Butterworth was there.
However the fact that Janet did not appear to know that her lover was supposed to be dead then begs the question of who exactly it was that the village were wanting to persuade that the agent WAS dead..... The only thing that makes sense is one of the other sides.... implying very strongly that there must be more than one village I think - a notion clearly corroborated from within the series when the village is said to be in the Baltic, off the coast of Africa and eventually apparently within reach of the A20.
As to all the script variations, it demonstrates a very firm editorial influence, where the writers have their ideas tossed about and re-invented by some unseen Number One.
Hello Moor,
DeleteYes, Janet was certainly put through the ringer. First her fiance disappears without trace. Her father Sir Charles tells her that he has no idea where he is, and she's not sure if her father is lying to her or not. If he is keeping Janet in the dark regarding her finace, then that's cruel enough. But then there's this chap now living in his house, even has his car. And after he claims to be her fiance, you are right of course, how could she possibly come to terms with that? What we don't see after they have kissed in that tender love scene between Janet and the Colonel, is what they talk about afterwards. Surely the Prisoner would have told her what had happened to him, how his mind came to be in another man's body, even if it was difficult for Janet to comprehend. And then to make matters worse {if indeed they could get much worse} she loses her fiance for a second time, after he's gone into the continent in search of Seltzman!
Regarding Sir Charles Portland, ZM73 tries to prove to him that he is ZM73. Of course Sir Charles finds this difficult to swallow. Yet at the same time he doesn't recognise the Colonel. Does this mean the Colonel wasn't working for Sir Charles. Or he might not wish to make the identity of the Colonel known to the Prisoner for whatever reason.
That's an interesting comment of Sir Charles double-bluffing the Prisoner. If he knew about the Village, did Sir Charles send the Colonel to the Village in the first place? And if he did why didn't he recognise the Colonel in his study of his home? And if Sir Charles knew about the Village, why send Potter to follow the Prisoner, when the Undertaker was already doing that?
Yes, they certainly have free-reign over the Prisoner's house. First by Mrs Butterworth, and then it's made ready for the Colonel. It might be a Government house, that might explain it.
I'm not surprised that Janet didn't know her fiance was supposed to be dead, after all her father told her nothing of his disappearence, if he knew anything about it in the first place, and even if he did he still didn't tell her.
That's a very good question, who was the Village administration trying to convince that the Prisoner was dead? In the original script for 'Many Happy Returns' Mrs Butterworth was supposed to have handed No.6 a copy of The Tally Ho with the headline 'Plane Lost Over Sea No hope of Survivors.' What would be the point in that story in The Tally Ho, that No.6 is dead, when the Prisoner would be out and about the Village the next day? Or was that issue of The Tally Ho simply meant for the television viewer?
More than one Village - yes, that's been made mention of before, a long time ago. Because of the A 20 one fan, years ago now, suggested that the Village was somewhere near Dover, I think it might have been spotted if it was!
"As to all the script variations, it demonstrates a very firm editorial influence, where the writers have their ideas tossed about and re-invented by some unseen Number One."
Yes I like that idea very much, Number 1 being Patrick McGoohan of course!
Kind Regards
David
Be seeing you
Here's a question, David. Can you tell me the real life name of the cat in 'Dance' and 'Returns'?
ReplyDeleteHi Steve,
DeleteThe real life name of the Village cat in 'Dance of the Dead' Tammy [if memory serves me right}. She was a replacement for the original cat to be used, because it would not behave in front of camera.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
Remarkable.
ReplyDeleteEven more remarkable, is that Fairclough ALSO got it right.
Talking of which - I once met actor Peter Adamson on the Underground when coming away from a London Group get together about 20 years ago. I spoke to him (I merely asked the time) but his answer was very brief and he was visibly uncomfortable. I wasn't surprised, as I was fully aware of the dreadful story behind this sad man.
How I miss those evenings in Waterloo, where I'd regularly see 'Buster' selling flowers outside Waterloo Station!