FALL OUT - the final chapter of that enigmatic television series the Prisoner. And what does ‘Fall Out’ gives us, a James Bond style of ending, which McGoohan always said was not what his intention to give the audience, but did so anyway but bound it all up in a fancy pink ribbon called it an allegory! But more than that, much more than that, we finally get to meet No.1 as No,6 did, and it turned out to be himself all along, oh what a cop-out it all was, or was it?
I have always been of the opinion that you get what you see, as No.6 finally comes face to face with No.1 - himself, his alter ego if you prefer, who No.6, as McGoohan once put it "He was trying to beat."
Well were they, No.6 and No.1 one and the same. Or was it all delusion as most things in the village seem to be, and yet more manipulation of No.6 brought about by the villages administration, or those masked members of the assembly? You will recall Curtis of the episode ‘The Schizoid Man,’ No.6's doppelganger for the want of a better word. But he died in the episode didn't he. Well we have only No.6's word for that, as not everyone is suffocated to death at the membrane of the village guardian you know. Curtis may very well have only been rendered unconscious for all we know, and that could mean that Curtis...... Well No.1, getting his own hands dirty for once!
If this is not the case, and that in actual fact No.6 and No.1 were one and the same, the Prisoner must then surely have ended in despair, with No.6 finding out that he was No.1 after all. And do we then not share in the Prisoner's despair? Do we not, each and everyone of us, at some point in our lives, have the desire to be No.1? And for those lucky ones who achieve that goal, who do they face when they look themselves in the mirror?
I'll be seeing you.
Except No6 did not seem sunken in despair after meeting No1 did he? It was as if once he had recognised who No1 was, it made it possible for him to finally escape. After all, up until that point the village had seemed omnipotent, but once No6 had self-realised, he found freedom was very easy to find.
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps, to look at it another way, once the village secret had been exposed as no secret at all, then the village's power over No6 was at an end.
Hello Moor,
DeleteWell for that matter just because Number 6 now knowing who Number 1 was, didn't aford him an escape. Nor did he find freedom very easy to find, if at all. Because at the end of 'Fall Out' he's still just as much a prisoner as he was at the beginning. Hence the single word PRISONER seen on the screen.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
He's the same man at the end of Fall-Out as he was at the beginning. He's as free after Fall Out as he was at the beginning - driving in his little car.
ReplyDeleteAs Kipling put it:
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
Hello Moor,
DeleteI can see where you are coming from by quoting Kipling. And yes the Prisoner is the same man at the end as he was at the outset. But he's still a prisoner, hence the single word 'PRISONER' on the screen, and if the man is free, then why is the end of 'Fall Out' the beginning of 'Arrival,' and therefore the series of events which we have witnessed, begin all over again!
Kind regards
David
BCNU
Isn't that what No6 was fighting for? The right to be himself? That was all he ever demanded. He also kept his promise to wipe that village off the face of the earth. One village down, who knows how many moor there are to go?
ReplyDeleteHello Moor,
DeleteYes, amongst other things. He was also taking on himself, as his own worst enemey who he was trying to beat, according to Patrick McGoohan. But who you are is in your mind, and it's a kind of good versus evil thing. The ID against the ego.
That's an interetsing point which you raised, about Number 6 keeping his promise to wipe the Village off the face of the Earth, to obliterate it. But is that what happened? What real visual evidence is there that the Village was actually destroyed, obliterated off the face of the Earth? I had a long debate with an old friend {via letter} about whether or not the Village is destroyed in 'Fall Out.' I said I can see no visual evidence of the destruction of the Village. His argument was down to the fact that the rocket was a nuclear rocket. He said that is what 'Fall Out' is all about. I had to point out that he'd got the wrong fallout, it's 'Fall Out,' whereas nuclear fallout is one word. Besides which, the rocket didn't destroy the Village!
Kind regards
David
Be seeing you {once the fall out has cleared!}
We certainly don't see the village utterly blown up as we perhaps see the island in "You Only Live Twice" exploded... (I think I've got the right Bond).
DeleteHowever, there seems good visual evidence that a chain of events is set off, triggered by the evacuation of No1 aboard his rocket, which suggests the village is being destroyed from within - below ground, and this seems to be the only fathomable reason why all those villagers should be running away, and all the helicopters taking off. They must all be running from something that they fear might kill them.
This does not mean No6 has won some total victory of course, because there is also clear evidence within the series that there is more than one village by geographical location - albeit every village looks the same. I'm not sure No6 ever quite realised that there was moor than one village, hence his excited sense of freedom and victory as he arrived back in London. However, we are left in no doubt the Butler knew; in fact as he passed through the door of No1 Buckingham Place, that door seemed already to have been interfered with..... ;-)
Hello Moor,
DeleteThe Village is certainly evacuated against an impending danger, the word to evacuate being given by the President, and not by some unseen Number 2 in the Village. The former Number 2, before taking his seat amongst the delegates of the Assemby, Supervisor-Number 28.
Yes the citizens were running away because they were ordered to, so to escape some calamity, and several helicopters as filmed taking off from all parts of the Village. And yes, the Village did seem to be being brought down from within. Number 1 despatched aboard the rocket, escaping the Village at precisely the same time as Number 6 in the cage aboard the lorry as it crashes through the wrought iron gates at the end of the tunnel.
The rocket blasts off from out of it's silo. Flames from the rocket's exhausts would have filled the cavern, the heat shearing, but would have been contained within the cavern. I once calculated how much water it would have taken to put out those flames, and cool the interior of the cavern. How could it not be otherwise? Remember it was the former Number 6 who launched the rocket, the rocket which was there for a distinct purpose. Had Number 6 not launched the rocket, then the rocket would have been launched at some point in the normal course of Village events, with Number 48, the late Number 2, and possibly the former Number 6 sealed inside their Orbit Tubes. Then the rocket would have been launched in complete safety, having no ill effect on the structure of Village.
As for bringing the Village down from within, the Village may have been evacuated, and possibly abandoned. But an evacuated or abandoned Village, can can be repopulated.
"Clear evidence within the series that there is more than one Village"? Not sure about that one at all. What geographical locational evidence within the series? I can think of none other than in Lithuania on the Baltic. Or South-West of Portugal and Spain. Well the Village isn't in Lithuania on the Baltic. If such a Village existed would they give that knowledge to Number 6? So that just leaves the other location. Unless of course I've been missing something all these years. And if there is more than one Village, why would they all look the same? Please to enlighten.
Kind regards
David
Be seeing you
All the points about the rocket would work if it was intended that the rocket be used in some routine way, but if it was only ever intended to be used as an Escape vehicle, there would not have been any precautions necessary to protect the silo from whence it lifted off. The village seems hardly the location for routine rocket blast-offs and the panic of the President seems to demand we take the view that a catastrophe was taking place and he expected to get worse. That's my opinion anyhow.
ReplyDeleteThe multiplicity of villages seems demanded by the three very different locations demanded within the stories (Baltic, African coast and SE England). McGoohan as over-arching editor of the series certainly wants us to believe that the "village" is run by "both sides" and he very deliberately gives us three entirely different locations within the storylines and even in 1967 everyone would have noticed that; it was not one of those arcane details only noticeable since video-tape came along. The fact that there might be moor than one village is irrelevant to the internal storylines of what goes on in "the village" because of course he also wanted us to accept that just as both sides are the same, so every village is just the same. In that sense there is only one village.
The fact that No6 seems not to really notice this multiplicity of geography perhaps merely serves to show that nobody is as perfect as they might believe themselves to be... ;-D
Hello Moor,
DeleteI have come to see the Village as a prediction of what has come to be an International community, the European Union of today, with one currency for some, the EU, as the Village had the Work Unit. The Village blueprint Number 2 was talking about to Number 6 during 'The Chimes of Big Ben.' Of course at the time of 'the Prisoner' it was simply called the Common Market, and probably should have stayed just that!
Yes, three locations, but two of them are false. The fact that Number 6 actually navigated his way back to the Village in 'Many Happy Returns' is confirmation of the fact. As for the location of the Village being on the South east coast of England, has come about by fans beliving that the tunnel in 'Fall Out' emerges at the end of the A20, which if fact it does nothing of the kind. The A20 is a duel carriageway, the road upon which the Scammel Highwayman transporter emerges onto out of the tunnel is a single country track, anyone can see that. I don't know where some fans get their ideas sometimes. All that is required is to look, and use reasoned logic about what they are seeing.
Kind regards
David
Be seeing you
The truck should really have emerged onto the M6 - now that would have been moor fun... :-D
ReplyDeleteI generally avoid comment on the 2009 version but one of the few good lines in it, was the suggestion that if the village was going wrong, then what was needed was more village.... :-D
That seems to fit with the current Euro-Crisis, but I wonder if we shall be talking about such mundane matters as the Euro in another 45 years, as we are about Mr. McGoohan's allegory... well, I shan't be, I daresay I shall be dead..... :-D
Hello Moor,
DeleteYes, it would have been moor {sorry about that} fun if the lorry had emerged on the M6, the M6 having been a mistake on my part. I meant M1, and amended the error once I had discoverd it.
THEPRSI6NER-09 does have some excellent lines in it. The Village is breaking up in the final episode - holes are appearing in the Village everywhere because Helen/M2 is awake, and no longer dreaming of the Village in her subconscious. To help repair the Village Two suggests that the citizens all "Breathe in....breathe out....more......Village." The reason for 'More Village,' is that more broken people are being brought to the Village to be made better. May I ask if you have watched THEPRIS6NER-09, and what you thought of it? If you hated it, then that's fine. I've heard from many fans of the original series who took against the new series. But some have given the series a second chance, and can now see the value, and appreciate it.
That's good that is, something like "Breathe in....breathe out....more European Union" to help fix the Euro crisis. If only that were possible. Anyway it might be worth a try, as the European leaders don't seem to have a clue as how to deal with the problem!
45 years talking about 'McGoohan's allegory,' and still so much to see and say about the series, even today. Another 45 years? Well, it would be close, but it's not without the probabilty that in 45 years time I'll still be writing about 'the Prisoner,' if there's still anything left to write about it that is. But to get there, what I've got to do is "Breathe in....breathe out....more Village!"
Regards
David
BCNU
My view on the Pris9ner was that it was victim of Committees. I inter-blogged at the time with other interested watchers.
ReplyDeleteThis was a comment I made after Ep1:
“From what I recall this new show began life described enthusiastically by the PR machines as a remake, but over time, as production and more particularly post-production continued (seemingly endlessly) the story changed and almost as soon as it was released to choruses of derogation in the USA itself, the PR people completed their shift to claim this was not a remake but a *re-imagining*…. ie. not the same show at all, but “a *riff* upon the original” is a popular phrase I’ve seen used.
Having watched Episode One again last night, you can actually see the joins. All the Namibian footage seems to suggest one plot but shoe-horned all around it is the *enigma*……… meaningless jump-cuts that just confuse and annoy rather than intrigue. It seems that the show was shifted in its direction and has two or three *plots* – not as diverging story-lines but just all jumbled up together. Watching it for the second time, I could *see* the joins, where they have changed their minds and tried to use footage to patch a different story together from what that footage was originally intended to do. This leads to strange moments where the *emotional pattern* of the Six character makes no sense. It is like those soap characters whose personalities change – except this guy changes personality almost mid-scene……….
I would say the show has been re-imagined in post-production. I suspect Jim Caviezel has been heavily criticised because his part has been chopped up and switched around to try and project something that at the time he *acted* it, it was intended to *mean* something else entirely. Poor Jim.
The first episode also carried almost gratuituous prisoner references, that seemed to have almost nothing to do with the (revised) plot and maybe Episode Two, having paid those dues, will start making more sense and develop some consistent narrative.
In the advert break itv4 gave a rather clumsy clue however, when a promo for the second episode next Saturday intoned something like, “Have you ever had a dream that you were not quite sure *was* a dream?….. The Prisoner… next Saturday on itv1………..
It’s a bit sad when the ad for next week makes more sense than the programme you’ve just watched………. “
This is a comment I made after watching Ep.3. I don't think my opinion was much altered by the end. It was beautifully filmed.
"There was enough in Episode 3 to suggest that the new show had started out with some core of an idea for a remake. However, whatever happened to this show in between script and screen is summed up by your phrase: “If it’s sometimes impossible to figure out just what is going on, as if pages of the script had been tossed aside during shooting”. I would go further and suggest that everything from shooting was cast aside and somebody pieced together the accumulated footage in some dada-fuelled fugue. Unlike the original which was plain as the nose on your face, unless you wanted to peek under it’s simple skin, this remake is akin to a badly-botched piece of cosmetic surgery that has led to severe MRSA. Be sticking with it to the bitter end."
Moor
Hello Moor,
DeleteAn interesting comment on THEPRIS6NER-09.
THEPRIS6NER-09 from the very beginning, during preproduction 2007-08, was described as a reinterpretation, or reinvention of the original series, and not simply a remake. It was never meant to be a remake. But that is what many fans had expected, a direct remake of the original series. But what would have been the point in that? And I think many fans were disappointed that it was not a direct remake, but an interpretation of the original series.
There are subtle homages paid to the original series all the way through THEPRIS6NER, the one I like most, is played out in the 'Go-Inside bar,' when Two glances up at the Penny farthing Bicycle suspended from the ceiling, giving homage to that which has gone before. That was a nice touch I thought.
It took a couple of viewings of 'Arrival' for me to get my head round it, I suppose it was all the flashbacks, which I thought at the time were flashbacks of the Prisoner's former life in New York. I didn't realise at the time, that the Prisoner, and others brought to the Village, are living two existances at the same time. Once I'd grasped that, then it was easier to get my head round a second time.
Poor Jim Caviezel, was critisied because his character of Six, was not as strong as McGoohan's Number 6. But fans forgot that the two characters as not the same, nor were ever meant to be. Jim purposely did not watch the original series of 'the Prisoner,' because he didn't want to be influenced by McGoohan.
I have to say that as an already hard and fast fan of THEPRIS6NER-09 I do not agree with everything you wrote in your comment, but you are praised for writing it. It is your point of view and I will not argue against it, save for one or two small points. You may see the negatives in the series, but I congratulate you for sticking to the series the way you did. For I am aware of certain fans of the original series who gave up on it after wahtching only half an hour of the first episode. One fellow gave up after a mere ten miutes, and both condemned the whole of the series on that half and hour or ten minutes, which I found utterly ridiculous. I can understand fans not taking to THEPRIS6NER-09, but fans, like yourself, gave it a fair chance, and did not give up after so short a time!
Kind Regards
David
BCNU
Yes, I think I watched the first three or four twice!! The first showing and the repeat later in the week. However, by the last two my interest had waned and I made do with just the one. I agree that the show had merits. There were some parts that really seemed inspired but I stick by my thoughts that somehow this show got completely interfered with , and watching the credits I think you see SIX script editors listed, which suggests to me huge interference and a loss of whatever the vision was that Gallagher had had originally.
ReplyDeleteThe use of "everything's a dream" just doesn't cut it for me. I had never liked that as an "explanation" for the original either. I can understand how Pris9ner might make more sense when watched again and again, but only becasue it was so over-edited. It also probably doesn't help that I really cannot see what people see in Ian McKellen; he leaves me cold. I guess some people nowadays feel the same way about the original because of that bloke, Patrick McGoohan... :-D
Hello Moor,
DeleteYour comment and views on THEPRIS6NER-09 are fair enough, and I respect you for it. Where this series is concerned, putting aside thoughts of the production. It is what it is, and whether one likes it or not is purely a personal question of choice.
Yes there were six script editors working on the series, and you know what they say, "Too many cooks spoil the broth," and that is what I think when considering all the various scriptwriters who worked on the original series.
To be perfectly honest, I've never watched many of Ian McKellen's performances. However I do enjoy his performance as Two.
It is impossible to say of course. But I have wondered what fans of the original series who didn't like THEPRIS6NER-09 would have thought had McGoohan appeared in it, even just as the cameo role of the old man 93? Or even if McGoohan had lived long enough to have seen the series, and liked it. What might fans reaction have been then to the new series? I am aware of some fans of the original series who are very fickle, and easily swayed by the words and thoughts of Patrick McGoohan. And if he had liked and praised the series, then so would they. Such was, and probably still is, their addoration for the man.
Regards
David
Be seeing you
One of the aspects I felt kind of proves that the show was chopped up and influenced by many differing voices was the lack of continuity of some of the best ideas. For instance, all that business about everyone eating "wraps"; that notion was brought to the fore in Episode One and then just never go mentioned again. There was one episode where Six ends up in the tunnels with the little girl, but that whole sub-plot (if that's what it was) went nowehere. The little girl disappearing, leaving just her ice-cream on the ground was one of the best moments of the series but what happened to her? and Why? No idea!!... :-D The gay son just seemed a plot going nowhere and seemed pointless other than to press some gay lobby buttons.... speaking of whom, what was that "wild village" all about, with the bikers and the night-club... where did that come from? The Sumakor "reality plot" looked really intriguing to me, but it went absolutely nowhere and just hung about in the background. The whole series seemd chock-full of influences and empty of proper direction. I really wonder if it might have been better with 17 episodes, to give time to draw the ideas out more fully.... ;-D
ReplyDeleteThe original had many disparate writers, but a very consistent narrative. You knew exactly who No6 was and what he wanted and you feel motivated to hope he got what he wanted. I eneded up disliking almost every character in Pris9ner and wishing Six was dead, which he might just as well have been for all the difference he made.
Ian McKellan's Two became the prime focus for the viewer but there was nothing about him or his wife that made any sense at all. I really think you are seeing far more in the "remake/reboot" than there was, and yet sometimes you seem unwilling to see the "far more" in the original - going by many of your blog comments. People can be very individual.... :-D
Hello Moor,
DeleteTHEPRIS6NER-09 is not the most difficult series to come to terms with. Eating of wraps for example, a notion of which you say is never mentioned again, much is made of the wraps in the episodes of 'Harmony,' and 'Anvil' when Two wakes M2 up, she eats her favourite meal in a wrap. That is the explanation as to why everyone in the Village eats wraps, because it's M2's favourite.
Six went to the tunnel, or The Therapy Zone, in order to rescue 313. That is where the schoolgirl 1,100 is taken away to in the back of the black Bedford van before she could finish her ice cream. 1,100 is being taught suveillance techniques at school, and Six got the schoolgirl to spy on Two. Two caught the girl spying on him, and that's why she is sent to The Therapy Zone for treatment. However, we see 1,100 in The Therapy Zone in an earlier scene when Six is there to rescue 313. You should be asking yourself, why is 1,100 in The Therapy Zone at that time, long before she is sent there on Two's instruction at the end of the episode?
11-12 the son of Two and M2 is curious about the 'other place,' he wants to go to there, to leave the Village. Only people who are brought to the Village can leave. Those who are born in the Villge, like 11-12 do not physically exisit. So at the end as the Village is breaking up, because Helen is now awake, no longer holding the Village in her subconscious, as it will cease to exist, so will 11-12.
The bikers and men in black with guns and dogs, are the guardians of the Village, it is they who were hunting down the old man 93 in the opening scene of 'Arrival.' The 'Go-Inside Bar' is that, a night club, catering for all tastes, it even has Peep-Shows! As for the bikers, in America you will find bars like the one in the Village, and they have bikers in them. The Village of THEPRIS6NER-09 basically has a 1950's American feel about it. The Solar Cafe's interior is that of a 1950's American Diner, but the outside architecture and decorations is Portmeirionesque.
Summakor is the company behind the Village, from which Michael resigned, and to which Curtis tries, and succeeds to bring Michael back to, and be placed in charge as a Supervisor on the purpose floor. Originally Michael was partly responsible for the Village, as he was finding the people who were in need to be sent there. People who were broken mentally, in need to be made better. I wouldn't say there is no direction in THEPRIS6NER-09. Yes, I agree the series is too short. When I first watched the series, even after watching the first episode, I was left with the feeling of wanting to know more, and that feeling remained even after watching the whole series.
I wonder how you, I, or anyone would react if we were to find outselves in the position of either Number 6 in the original series, or that of Six in THEPRIS6NER? Could you for example stand up to the Village authorities day after day as Number 6 in the original series? How long could anyone withstand the kind of treatment most of the Village citizens went through? Let me ask you, do you have the knowledge that Number 6 has, able to chop down trees, construct a boat, or raft, make a home made compass and navigate yourself across the open sea? To survive as he did? I couldn't. Number 6 is a special case, he was not to be broken, or damaged. If they really wanted Number 6 to talk, they would have put him the treatment other Prisoners were put through, even Number 6 would have talked. I think that on the whole, the majority of people, ordinary people, like you and I, who were to find ourselves in the Village would react much like that of Six in THEPRIS6NER, in having little or no effect whatsoever.
Kind regards
David
BCNU
I think if they poked matchsticks up my fingernails, I would tell them everything I knew fairly sharpish... :-D
ReplyDeleteI can only hope they beleived me when I said "I know nothing!"
What I meant about those plot points was that it was all too little utilised, and there seemed to be a huge potential to explore them more.... the wraps could have become a really funny trope - the tunnels could have been explored more deeply ;-) - why it was that the whole population of the village didn't spend their lives in debauchery with the wild bikers - what THEY were doing with the children exactly.. ?? .... The back-story of Michael and Sumakkor could have filled a whole series on its own....
Maybe the original idea was to do a Lost, but then they got cold feet and just tried to squeeze what they had into a village cup. Remember this property passed between SKY and AMC, but SKY withdrew due to having "creative differences" with AMC, before itv joined in very late in the day, and there seemed a very long delay between the shooting and the show actually coming to screen, and how they manged to blow £1M per episode just seems excessive. Allowing for inflation, I make it that McGoohan spent about £600,000 per episode for the original, with the most expensive single episode only just nudging £1M (Living in Harmony - about £900,000)
I reckon they could easily have made 12 episodes and probably had enough material to fill them. They seemed to get hung up on this whole gimmick of SIX, like it made some kind of difference. The other eason I think the Producers completely lost the plot is the way AMC broadcast it in two monolithic 3-hour chunks on successive night, as if they just wanted to get it done and "written off" the accounts.
One good thing is that there is still the potential for someone to do a moor satisfying Prisoner remake/reboot/reinterpretation one day. I think the original could be developed and built on in all sorts of ways. I just hope next time that they ditch the "life is but a dream" crap - or don't wrap it up as an Agatha Christie mystery that muddles the entire narrative, but rather explore how such a thing might work for real and what the consequences are for those living the dream and those running the dream..... ;-D
Hello Moor,
DeleteWhat you say is true. Perhaps it was a question of time, in putting so much into so few episodes, even the final episode of Checkmate' is only 45 minutes in length!!!!
In having gone to so much trouble to produce THEPRIS6NER, what with SKY pulling out of the orginal deal, the sacking of the original director, you would think that AMCtv would have wanted to make so much more out of the series. After all they held a 'Comic Con' in New York for the series, with people going about the city dressed in piped blazers etc, they even had a Village Guardian used for advertising the series. Then what did they go and do.....they premiered the series in 3 two episode segments. It was as though they were trying to get THEPRIS6NER over with as quickly as possible, having gone to produce the series in the first place. And that is the same format that the series is due to be re-screened in Germany this month. So I guess in Great Britain, for those who like the series, we were lucky that THEPRIS6NER was shown as a six part series, and not 3.
By the by, when the episode 'Harmony' was screend here in Great Britain, and subsequently released on DVD, there is a scene at the end which differs from the American AMCtv screening. When Six goes to 16's home to tell his family of 16's death, in the AMCtv episode the members of 16's family are seen wearing 'pig' masks. In the same scene of the episode seen in Great Britain the members of 16's family are NOT wearing the 'pig' masks!
You mentioned that there is still the potential for someone to do a more satisfying remake/reboot/reinterpretation. Well as a matter of fact I have written a manuscript based on the original series of 'the Prisoner,' what's more it takes place in the orginal Village, but with a new Number 6, who like the former Number 6 resists the Village, refusing to tell them what they want to know, with fresh plots and escape attempts along the way. Unfortunately so far, I have not been able to get a publisher or film company interested in it. I could say that if turned into a film or television series, it would be far superior to THEPRIS6NER, and very much in keeping with the original series, but not enough to make it a direct remake, which would satisfy fans of the original series. However the proof would be in the reading or viewing. But you never know, someone may just see the value in the manuscript and decide to take it up, I have not given up on that, and nor will I.
Kind regards
David
Be seeing you
Yeah, the pig trope is another one, and I seem to recall a coffin full of oranges... There was tons of stuff that went nowhere.... the boat anchor in the desert?! A terrible waste. I have always hoped Bill Gallagher might explain what the heck went on, but I suppose it might be moor than his career is worth to speak out... Maybe someone should interview him at a Convention.... :-D
ReplyDeleteWith regards to your own pet project, whether it gets made or not doesn't mean you never wrote it. McGoohan was forever reported to be "writing" but but I've never seen much sign of what he wrote - outside of Columbo... :-D
Moor
Hello Moor,
DeleteThe question about the "Pig Trope" as you termed them, is why was that final scene edited, without the pig masks for British television?
Some of the shots used in the final episode of THEPRIS6NER are almost subliminal, like the coffin filled with oranges. That is the grave of 4-15 {Lucy in New York} who Six was going to marry in the episode 'Darling.' Why the oranges in a coffin? In New York Lucy wanted oranges for breakfast. Michael had gone out to buy the oranges, but on his return his apartment was blown up due to a gas leak, killing Lucy, at the very same moment that 4-15 commits Village suicide by throwing herself into one of the holes appearing in the Village.
The ships anchor is symbolic to Six, as it represents escape. Because where there is an anchor, there must be a ship, and where there is a ship there must be a sea or ocean, and that means escape. Originally the plan was to have had a full-sized ship attached to that anchor in the desert, but that proved to be rather too ambitious for the production.
Bill Gallagher at a 'Prisoner' Convention? No chance! Six of One: The Prisoner Appreciation Society, as far as I am aware have not fully embraced THEPRIS6NER-09 series, many of their members do not like the series. So I cannot see Bill, Jim, or Ian ever being invited along to one of their 'Prisoner' Conventions.
Regards
David
BCNU
I think I have same objections to "subliminal" as you have to "allegory"... :-D
ReplyDeleteIt's always been my opinion and it remains so to today, that the only mistake McGoohan made in his original was not allowing the viewer to fully absorb WHO No1 was. I am convinced that that was the reason for the 200 complaints to the itv in 1967. It was not that they objected to WHO was revealed, it was moor that they had no idea who the heck it had been. I might have mentioned elsewhere that it was not until the 1980's that I even realised it HAD been meant to be No6!!.... :-D
I'm not sure if that means I'm an idiot and don't care if it does. The important thing is that you could watch McGoohan's show and "important" things might slip by you, but you questioned nothing because there was so much else to entertain and fill the mind, whereas my thoughts about the remake was that it just seemed brimful of *deliberate* confusion/conundrum and seemd self-conscious in its design to confuse, rather than entertain and enthrall. I resented that over-production, treating me as I was expected to complete an exasperating jigsaw puzzle rather than watch a show that had real depth.
So far as the pigs go, there was a trope about every familty keeping a pig or something... I vaguely recall.
Hello Moor,
Delete"I think I have same objections to "subliminal" as you have to "allegory"... :-D"
As they say, each to their own, although I did say "almost subliminal" because there the coffin full of oranges is in the episode one moment, and then it's gone. It's not quite subliminal.
When I orginally watched 'Fall Out' I was but 12 years of age. I didn't understand the episode at all, but I enjoyed the action sequences. I remember being excited that we were going to see Number 1 at last, and remember how disappointed I was that we did not learn more about him. It came as a shock to discover that he looked like Number 6. But then the moment of meeting Number 1, was over. Did I see Number 1 being the alter ego of Number 6 and vice versa at the time? Of course not, not back then, there wasn't time to think about it, it took me all my time to remember what I had seen.
I don't think more could have been made of the meeting of Number 1, otherwise Patrick McGoohan might have had some explaining to do as to who Number 1 is, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to do that on camera, not in the actual episode! Disappointing for the television viewer, but it lets Patrick McGoohan off the hook, in my opinion.
Only 200 complaints, I'm surprised there were not more! I thought the complaints were that they didn't understand 'Fall Out' at all, complaining about the rubbish they had just watched, the television viewers who all thought McGoohan had let them down.
Ah, but No.1 may not be Number 6, he could be Curtis. Yes I know that's who McGoohan said he was, Number 1 who Number 6 was trying to beat, but did the character of Number 6 know that before the advent of 'Fall Out?' The story goes that McGoohan didn't know who Number 1 would be. But at the end was it David Tomblin who said to McGoohan "I thought Number One would turn out to be you in the end!" or words to that effect. Such was the arrogance of McGoohan, to make himself Number 1!
If you have the desire, you can question THEPRIS6NER-09, in fact you already have done in your comments, and should be applauded for that. The problem with THEPRIS6NER-09 is, there is not the depth and scope of the original. But then I never thought there would be.
I once asked the question if THEPRIS6NER-09 series had been made first, and that being the series that fans appreciated. Then along comes Patrick McGoohan with 'his' series, would fans hate it because it as the 'economy pack?'
Oh yes, keeing a pig, that was propoganda, to give the people of the Village something to do and to keep them calm. It was said that 'pig breath' would help stabilise the atmosphere of the Village, and help close the holes that were appearing. But of course the one thing about pigs is, they love to rutle about in the soil, they are destructive, and dig holes looking for truffles!
Kind regards
David
Breathe in....breathe out......more....Village
@ Only 200 complaints, I'm surprised there were not more! I thought the complaints were that they didn't understand 'Fall Out' at all, complaining about the rubbish they had just watched, the television viewers who all thought McGoohan had let them down. @
ReplyDeleteYes, there may have been an element of that, but I would have thought the same complaints could/would have been made of "Once Upon A Time".
Hello Moor,
DeletePerhaps, but 'Once Upon A Time' is more straight forward that of, dare I use the word, allegorical episode of 'Fall Out.' Beside there are presedents for the two-header episode of 'Once Upon A Time,' such as the 1955 film 'The Prisoner,' at least for the two-header scenes between the Cardinal and his interrogator.
Regards
David
BCNU
I would dare to suggest that the nature of "Once Upon A Time" was like nothing else on TV back then. I was only 10 at the time, but I had certainly never watched anything like it. I thought it was completely mad. I thoroughly enjoyed "Fall Out" in much the same way I had enjoyed "Dance of the Dead".
ReplyDeleteTwo-hander plays were not uncommon but the whole *empty stage* surrealism thing of the Embryo Room was, I would venture to suggest, unknown, outside of any TV presentation of "Waiting for Godot" or somesuch. I guess the sheer Impressionism of the Brand sets could be said to be something similar, but that was identified as a "theatrical" presentation and proved to be about as popular with an Audience rating of 8%, whereas The Prisoner was achieving something like 30% (at a guess).
Hello Moor,
DeleteYes you can suggest that "Once Upon A Time' was like nothing else on TV back then," I was 12 at the time. I was disappointed by 'Fall Out,' I thought I would learn something, but at the time all I was left with was more querstions and confusion. I thought Number 6 would finally escape, but he didn't, the word "PRISONER" on the screen showed me he was just as much a Prisoner at the end as he was at the beginning, I did get that much.
One more thing, about 'Fall Out,' why is it that during that fire fight, when everyone is running about the cavern, that it is only the armed Security Guards who get killed?
In 'Dance of the Dead' I knew that they wouldn't kill numnber 6. Putting him on trial for the possession of a radio, which is in breach of the rules, is one thing. But to sentence him to death, and allow that sentence to be carried out....what when Number 6 is seen to have a future with them. I guess Number 2 could think herself fortunate, that the frenzied mob baying for Number 6's blood, didn't actually catch up with him. They'd have torn him apart with their bare hands!
At least the viewer can follow 'Once Upon A Time,' whereas with 'Fall Out,' perhaps the average television viewer didn't know where he or she was. 'Once Upon A Time' does give you something, the viewer learns something about Number 6/Patrick McGoohan, seeing as how it is semi-biographical. With 'Fall Out,' it just added to the confusion, well it did for me, and at the time I never did learn what the Village Gaurdian was!
Regards
David
Be seeing you